Talk:The Saxon Stories

Not a trilogy

I've edited this page, as Bernard Cornwell has indicated that the Saxon Stories are not a trilogy, but will be a series of perhaps 7 or 8 books. On his website, it now states that the release date for Lords of the North in the USA is Jan 2007.

In the beginning of the article, it mentions Uhtred as being "very similar to Dervel Cadarn." Now, I like Uhtred as much as the next man, Uhtred is really a great guy. But lets face it, he's waaay more an "a-hole" than Dervel. Someone ought to reword that passage. ~Robertarans

Lee says - I'm English and the beauty of living over here allows us to buy Bernard Cornwell books such as Lords of the North much earlier than you can get in the States. I've read it and can't wait for the next in the series. I am a massive fan of the afore said author and have read all the Warlord novels, Grail Quest novels and most of the Sharpe novels. Stonehenge is also an excellent read but I must admit that after reading Lords Of The North it does leave one a bit in the lurch and screaming to find out what happens next. I on the other hand find that Uhtred is very much like Dervel although I agree with you that the Warlord series does have a sharper edge over the latest one.

The latest book in the Saxon Stories "The Death of Kings" has been announced, with a proposed release date of January, 2012, as indicated on Bernard Cornwell's website. I've added this info, and hope I've done the reference correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.248.188.29 (talk) 16:04, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

revamp-

I revamped the page layout and such:

- Added content box - Reference Section - Trivia Section - Infobox - Information about Book 4 in series - Minor changes in the text

Overall i think it looks a lot better, more professional and easier to naviagate

thank you

82.40.237.75 14:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

In the US the Saxon Stories are listed as the Saxon Tales, but Cornwell list them as the Saxon Stories on his own web site. Should that bit of information be mentioned? It took me a bit to find this reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.56.55.119 (talk) 10:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Deleted the sentance claiming the series is unique for being written the the first person; it's not, the Warlord Chronicles (Dervel) are too. 86.130.218.168 (talk) 19:13, 1 March 2010 (UTC)Joe

add Idea for the series section

I added a new section, Idea for the series, based on an interview Cornwell with with Emerson College in Boston. The list of novels is moved to its own section, Bibliography of the series. The Empty Throne has been published in the UK, so Pagan Lord is no longer the latest. The lead is divided in two paragraphs, one for Uhtred and one for the history behind his story. --Prairieplant (talk) 08:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

As far as I can tell The Empty Throne won't be published in the UK until October, and later in the US in January. Here's a link to it on Amazon.co.uk [1] dated "23 Oct 2014", and on Amazon.com [2] dated "January 6, 2015".--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 21:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Correct, verb tenses are fixed in the article now, and a new heading for the yet to be published but titled novel is in the Bibliography. --Prairieplant (talk) 22:45, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Merge from The Empty Throne

Per the recent AFD, I'm proposing a merge of The Empty Throne into this article. The merge will be pretty light, since none of the material in the source article is referenced. With no objections, I plan to complete the merge before 12 September 2014 -- Mikeblas (talk) 15:26, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

That makes no sense to me. When the book is released in October, its plot summary will be written, the reviews collected, and the article will have references and substance. Within a few weeks or two months, The Empty Throne will be needed again as its own article. It seems too late to delete this -- back in April, 6 months before publication, that would be a different question. Now it is September, too close to have the work re-done. On that basis, I object to deleting Empty Throne and merging it into the series article. --Prairieplant (talk) 19:06, 6 September 2014 (UTC) --Prairieplant (talk) 19:27, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

The notice on this article says Saxon Stories will be merged into Saxon Stories, which is not what is proposed, right? There is a citation for The Empty Throne from Fantastic Fiction in this article, Saxon Stories. --Prairieplant (talk) 19:11, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Fixed the notice. -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

No sense - about to be released and undoubtedly about to the a decision that is reversed if taken. Please avoid the deletion police! 10:06, 20 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.254.210.75 (talk)

Can this merger proposal be dropped, removed from the articles on The Saxon Stories and The Empty Throne, now that the book is published in the UK? --Prairieplant (talk) 14:54, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

The Saxon Stories or the Warrior Chronicles?

Surely we can't have the article title being different from the name of the series used in the opening sentence? Which should it be? Peteinterpol (talk) 22:24, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

For now it is the Saxon Stories. The reviewers still call it the Saxon Tales. The changes to Warrior Chronicles have been reverted. Settle this here first, not random changes in parts of the text, as a better way to go. --Prairieplant (talk) 09:04, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

"name of the series" - the books are a canonical source, is that to which you refer? The two titles have been used almost interchangably since inception. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 14:45, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure what a canonical source is. The topic is the title of the series to use in this article, given the many different titles given to the series. If they are interchangeable, will it suffice to keep the article titled as it is, with a paragraph, cited, explaining the two different names in frequent use since the first book? --Prairieplant (talk) 06:18, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Rob Sprack I just added a section on the various titles of the series, to back up what was added in the first paragraph in the lead. If someone (Rob Sprack?) has sources (not Amazon links, but an article in a newspaper or publishing industry source, or a specific edition of the book with an ISBN and the series title claimed) to back up the statements, that would enhance the article. No Amazon or Barnes & Noble (or the like) links because Wikipedia is not selling books, just clearing up the title of what is proving a long series of historical novels. --Prairieplant (talk) 18:51, 24 November 2015 (UTC) --Prairieplant (talk) 21:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Reception ?

How was it received by the public ? By critics, book reviewers ? Are those "best-sellers" ? How popular are they ? --Jerome Potts (talk) 19:01, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Jerome Charles Potts the articles about each novel in this series do not include a section on Reviews until the 5th novel, The Burning Land. The Review sections are often quite brief. It is likely more reviews were written, but not yet included in the articles for each novel by any editor. Most of the articles are Plot and Characters and information on first publication date, as readers awaited each next novel. You might use what has been included as the basis for a Reviews or Literary Significance section in this article about the series. Bernard Cornwell is a prolific author, with over 50 novels to his credit. I have not looked up the number sold for any of his novels, but sometimes that is included in a review by Publishers Weekly, if they reviewed the novel, or have something to say about a series. Cornwell gained recognition for his series featuring fictional Richard Sharpe in historical novels in a series initially focussed on the Napoleonic Wars, beginning from the time Arthur Wellesley entered the campaign of the Peninsular War. The series was well-received, and more novels were written about the Napoleonic Wars, and to fill in the early years of the fictional Richard Sharpe, who was with Wellesley in India, too. That is an indication of the author's popularity, but not this particular series, which you may have to research for specifics. I can say I like the novels and the notion of telling the story of how England was formed, and not Daneland in large measure due to Alfred the Great, but that is a very personal view. --Prairieplant (talk) 06:02, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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I checked the link found by the bot at Wayback machine, and it is fine. However Emerson college reorganized its archives for Emertainment magazine, and there is a new url for the article which I found by searching at the Emerson College web site. I added that to the article, in the text, with ref name=EmersonNewURL and the access date is 16 January 2018, 4 years after finding the article the first time. Do we leave it like that, or use the updated url for all four references to the article generated by the students interviewing Bernard Cornwell? --Prairieplant (talk) 08:51, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Deciding if a quotation is correct

GwydionM wants to change the name in a quotation from the interview Cornwell gave to The Guardian. I checked the source and Cornwell named Alfred and Aethelstan, but some want his quote to say Alfred and Edward. To change the name in a quote is not a simple edit, like fixing commas in non-quoted text. I accept the quote as accurate, which is why I reverted this change twice. If you really want to challenge the source, you need some basis to do that. Further if you do believe someone erred, then leave the quote as is, and learn how and when to use Template:Sic. Saying a printed quote is wrong takes care, and needs to be indicated, plus explained in the edit title, as well as being marked. Are you better than the editors of The Guardian? Did Cornwell misspeak? Is this important? Recall that the concept of the 'big story' is first mentioned in the section, Idea for the series of novels, the first section of this article.

The text at issue is in The Saxon Stories#Television adaptation and the part in question is in this sentence, "I can’t see anything else we have in common. This is rooted in reality. And even though Uhtred didn’t exist as I have written it, there is always that big story (of Alfred and his son Athelstan) in the background". --Prairieplant (talk) 12:22, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

References

Facts are facts. Aethelstan was a grandson. A source should not be saying something stupid.

If the source says that, then it is UNAMBIGUOUSLY wrong and this should be noted. Probably it is a transcription error. --GwydionM (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

If facts are facts, then quotations are accurate quotations from the source, GwydionM. You failed to use the sic template, so I copy edited to remove the text that so upsets you, and clarify the "big story" notion by using the other interview Cornwell gave using that term, cited in the opening section of the article. It is not unambiguously wrong in The Guaradian, as it may well be exactly what Cornwell said; his point is not based on the name, but on the notion of the "big story" that he uses in writing his historical novels. There is always a way around an issue. Please do not make a habit of "fixing" quoted material; it takes away from the reliability of the articl. --Prairieplant (talk) 23:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Deleted Uhtred of Bebbanburg details

Maybe some of it can be incorporated on this page.

Extended content

Uhtred was born in 856 to Ealdorman Uhtred, Lord of Bebbanburg and a Mercian noblewoman. Uhtred, originally called Osbert, is the younger of Ealdorman Uhtred's sons. The name Uhtred is given by tradition to the oldest son, so after his older brother is killed in a failed attack, Osbert's name is changed to Uhtred. Uhtred was never taught swordsmanship in his nine years at Bebbanburg as his stepmother wanted him to pursue a life dedicated to being a priest. However, this did not stop Uhtred from wishing to go to battle. Wishing to reclaim Eoferwic, which was captured in 866 when the Danish army began to arrive in Northumbria, the Ealdorman of Bebbanburg joined forces with King Osbert and King Ælla to fight against the Danes and reclaim Eoferwic. After the failed battle his son Uhtred is captured by the Danes following a furious but feeble attack on a Danish warlord after seeing his father stabbed through the throat in battle. After seeing his bravery, the Danish warlord - Ragnar the Fearless - decides to take Uhtred as a slave rather than to kill him. Ragnar begins to grow fond of Uhtred, and decides to purchase him when the other Danish earls tried to ransom him back to the new Ealdorman of Northumbria, Uhtred's uncle. Uhtred finds living with the Danes much freer than with the pious Christians and their dour priests at Bebbanburg and embraces the Danish gods of Thor, Odin, and Hoder. Despite their history, Uhtred comes to love Ragnar as a father and becomes a brother to Ragnar's children, Ragnar the Younger, Rorik, and Thyra. Uhtred lives a happy life in the village of Leeds with his new family for years. However, Ragnar had become enemies with a man named Kjartan due to an incident between Uhtred and Kjartan's son Sven when he was a boy. Uhtred had attacked Sven to protect Thyra when Sven tried to assault her sexually. When Thyra told Ragnar what happened afterwards, Ragnar banished Kjartan and blinded Sven in one eye as punishment. However, years later, as revenge, Kjartan led a warband attacking the village while Ragnar and his family slept and setting their hall on fire, killing everyone in it but Thyra. Meanwhile, Uhtred and his childhood friend Brida were guarding the blacksmith's fire - therefore avoiding death. Kjartan initially believed Uhtred to have also died in the fire. He later ended up being found out when he went to find his uncle, the Ealdorman of Bebbanburg, as he suspected his involvement in the attack on the village. After doing this, a false rumor was spread that Uhtred started an uprising and killed his adoptive father, and due to his Saxon heritage and bloodline it was believed by all of the Danish lords. After this, Uhtred tried to convince the king of the Danes that the rumors were not true, but did not succeed. Realizing that he has been effectively cast out by the Danes, Uhtred left Northumbria with his mate to ally with the Christian Saxons in Wessex. Uhtred fled to Wessex because Wessex was the only kingdom left that he knew of that was not Danish controlled. Additionally, his old tutor, a priest at Bebbanburg, told him to go there years earlier if he ever needed help or a place to go. Upon arriving in Wessex, Uhtred found his old tutor, who vouched for him when wishing to see the king of Wessex, Alfred the Great. Uhtred was knowledgeable of Danish customs and tactics, and as a result he proved to be an effective advisor to the king. However, there was constant tension between him and the king due to his disobedience, nonconformity with the social norms of Wessex, his non-adherence to Christianity, and the fact that he was reluctant to swear his allegiance to Alfred, as his ultimate goal was to reclaim the throne of Bebbanburg, which was stolen by his uncle. Nevertheless, his advice resulted in a victory for Wessex, and in return Alfred offered Uhtred land on the condition he marry a Christian woman from Wessex, and give his allegiance to the king for a period of 1 year as an Ealdorman. Despite Uhtred's childhood, he began to fight and revel in Danish defeats. All the while, although Uhtred admired Alfred to an extent, he believed Alfred too pious, weak and trusting to fight off the Danish invasion. Nonetheless, he maintained a healthy but grudging respect for Alfred's intelligence throughout their relationship. Alfred managed to calm any wanton violence between the two and Uhtred served him faithfully, though grudgingly, and at times with a mind to return to the Danes. Yet, as Uhtred's usefulness improved, so did Alfred's attention, and as Uhtred aged, he began to understand Alfred's wisdom although dislike was always present. Women Uhtred is associated with many different women, several of whom have a significant impact on his life. Uhtred has a fondness for defiant women who have "a spirit like an eagle", a characteristic he has attributed to many a woman. Conversely he dislikes women who crave order and Christianity (Æthelflaed and Hild being notable exceptions). Uhtred does not limit himself to those women with whom he has a long-standing relationship. In "The Burning Land", he was found lying with a slave girl in Dunholm by Father Pyrlig, one of many instances of his philandering. Brida Brida was Uhtred's friend, first lover, and later enemy. Like Uhtred, she is Saxon in origin and is adopted as a child by the Danes after seeing the ruins of her village wiped out by a raiding party from a rival band of Vikings. Brida experiences a feisty nature. Also like Uhtred, she comes to love the Danes for their free-spirited nature. She and Uhtred become playmates, close friends and, later, lovers when they reach adolescence. Brida becomes pregnant by Uhtred at least once, but she miscarries. Along with Uhtred, she learns the art of making charcoal for forging steel, and so survives along with Uhtred when Ragnar and the others are killed in the night-time attack by Kjartan The Cruel. Brida despises the strait-laced, pious, Christian Saxons of Alfred's court even more than Uhtred does. When they both have the opportunity to join Ragnar the Younger, Uhtred decides to return to Alfred to complete his oath-sworn service, and she stays with the Danes, later becoming lovers with Ragnar the Younger. As of The Burning Land, Brida hates Uhtred for abandoning the fight against Wessex with Ragnar; and in Warriors of the Storm, this hatred becomes mutual after Brida castrates Uhtred's disowned son, Father Oswald (formerly named Uhtred). Uhtred, enraged and eager to kill her, shows no sympathy at her painful death at the hands of Stiorra. Mildrith Mildrith is Uhtred's first wife, who first appears in The Last Kingdom. They were married as part of an arrangement whereby Uhtred gained command of the tiny Wessex fleet. The two do not really love each other, as a result of their vastly different outlooks on life and religion. As part of her dowry Mildrith brought with her a homestead in Oxton which bore an enormous debt because her father had pledged a substantial portion of his estate to the church which he had repeatedly been unable to pay. They had a son, named Uhtred after his father, but the child died young after choking on a pebble. The elder Uhtred believes the death is supernaturally connected to the survival of Alfred's son Edward, who was healed by Iseult at the same time that the younger Uhtred choked. After young Uhtred's death, through grief Mildrith retreats further into her religious devotion, eventually joining a convent. Iseult Iseult is an Irish shadow queen of Cornwall who appears in The Pale Horseman. Iseult was married to a minor king named Peredur who kept her virginity in the belief that it maintained her powers of prophecy. Seeing that Uhtred's arrival would result in her freedom, she convinced Peredur to hire on Uhtred and his ship's crew when they appeared off the coast in order to fight the Danish warlord Svein of the White Horse, who had captured a nearby fort. Svein and Uhtred ended up colluding to turn on Peredur and pillage his settlement, and Uhtred claimed Iseult and began living with her although he was still married to Mildrith. Although Iseult healed Alfred's son Edward from an illness that nearly killed him and created herbal medicines for Alfred that made him healthier, she was feared and distrusted by the Wessex court because of her paganism. Alfred used her as a "surety" to ensure that Uhtred would not betray him and go to the Danes. She was later baptized, which helped alleviate some of the resentment against her. She prophesied that Uhtred would father three children, two sons and a daughter but refused to go into any detail when pressed. She was killed during the Battle of Ethandun when Svein-led Danes attacked the Wessex caravan from behind, prompting Uhtred to slay Svein. Hild Hild (Hildegyth) is a nun who had been raped and prostituted after being captured by the Danes when they took Cippenaham (Chippenham) before being rescued by Isseult, Uhtred and Leofric in The Pale Horseman. She becomes Uhtred's companion and accompanies him back to Northumbria in Lords of the North. During this time Uhtred's attraction to Gisela was a factor that made her consider rejoining the church. When Uhtred discovered that he had been sold into slavery by Guthred as a condition of his alliance with his uncle Æelfric, he bequeathed his possessions to Hild. Hild then returned to Wessex where she recovers Uhtred's hoard of wealth which he had buried before journeying to Northumbria. She uses the hoard, and the promise that she would return to the church and found a nunnery dedicated to helping the poor and sick of Wessex, to convince Alfred to mount an attempt to rescue Uhtred. After Uhtred was liberated and returned to Wessex, he retrieved his armor and weapons from Hild, now the Abbess Hildegyth, who also gave him a small silver cross which he then had worked into the hilt of his sword Serpent-Breath. According to Uhtred, Hild was later revered as a saint. Gisela Uhtred met the Danish Gisela, sister of King Guthred of Cumbraland when Uhtred was betrayed by Guthred as part of Guthred's alliance with Ælfric. Devastated, Gisela determinedly waited for Uhtred to return and eventually the two are reunited. She often relies on Viking runes to tell her of the future (she shares her predictions with Uhtred). She has sworn not to leave Uhtred's side. They have three children as of 'Sword Song' (Uhtred, Stiorra and Osbert). In 'The Burning Land,' she and their fourth child both die, much to Uhtred's grief. Uhtred was loving and fiercely loyal to Gisela and wept bitterly at her death, though only in front of Finan. In the book Burning Lands, Uhtred accidentally killed a blind monk, Brother Godwin, out of anger by breaking his neck with a single blow for calling Gisela a witch (among other things) in Alfred's court after she had died. Æthelflaed After Gisela's death in The Burning Land, Uhtred reneges on his oath to Alfred of Wessex. When Jarl Haesten prepares to attack Mercia, and Æthelred tries to get a divorce from Æthelflaed by having one of his lords sleep with her (therefore making her an adulterer), Æthelflaed calls on the oath that Uhtred made to her before the attack on Lundene in Sword Song. Father Pyrlig persuades Uhtred that he cannot break this oath because it was made in love. Uhtred, with some 40 of his men, returns to Æthelflaed's side and rescues her from the Lord Aldhem. It is soon revealed that the ailing Alfred of Wessex had advised Æthelflaed to use Uhtred's oath. Uhtred had maintained a friendly relationship with Æthelflaed since she was a child, however, during The Burning Land, they fall into a forbidden love. Uhtred sees Æthelflaed as the woman of Iseult's prophecy: 'She will be a woman of gold.' (Æthelflaed has golden hair). It is thanks to Uhtred that Æthelflaed succeeds her husband as ruler of Mercia in The Empty Throne. The two are lovers for many years, but their relationship dissolves once Uhtred enters a relationship with Eadith who was the mistress of her late husband. Regardless, Æthelflaed and Uhtred remain friends after this, and Uhtred does not break his oath to her. Uhtred meets her for a final time in The Flame Bearer and she is dead by the start of the next novel in the series War of the Wolf. Skade Skade is the consort of Harald Bloodhair who presents one of the main threats to Wessex during the events of The Burning Land. On his way to meet Alfred at Æscengam, Uhtred and his small force pass through a small village where they come across one of Harald's war bands led by Skade who is found mutilating the village priest in the church. At Æscengam Harald impulsively comes to demand her release, threatening to execute Saxon prisoners one by one in front of the walls until she is released to him. Skade meanwhile openly curses Uhtred, which leads him to blame her for the subsequent death in childbirth of Gisela. Uhtred refuses to release Skade despite some prisoners dying and gold as the bribe of her release. After defeating Harald at Farnham (written in the book as Fearnhamme), Skade is taken prisoner again. When Uhtred flees to Ragnar's fortress Dunholm after he murdered Brother Godwin, who had called Gisela a whore, Skade convinces Uhtred to go Viking and go steal her first husband Skirnir's hoard in Frisia. It is during the journey to Frisia that Uhtred and Skade become lovers. However, when Uhtred refuses to give her half of the captured hoard - which turns out to be vastly inferior to how it was described - relations between the two become acrimonious and increasingly hostile. They return to Dunholm where Brida convinces Ragnar to sail south and attack Wessex, along with the two most powerful Danes in Northumbria, Sigurd and Cnut. Haesten arrives to convince the three that as a diversion he will attack East Anglia distracting Alfred's forces away from the supposedly main threat of Ragnar, Sigurd and Cnut. Haesten becomes infatuated with Skade and when he leaves Dunholm, she leaves with him. After the Saxon victory at the battle of Benfleet (written in the book as Beamfleot), Uhtred fights his way to Haesten's hoard in the new fort where he finds an incredibly hostile Skade on top of the hoard. This leads to a standoff which is resolved when a crippled and vengeful Harald Bloodhair, grievously wounded in his defeat at Farnham, makes his way to Skade and while feigning affection embraces her, then stabs her, killing her. Sigunn Sigunn was Uhtred's mistress. Born Danish, she is rescued by Uhtred after her husband dies in battle after the conclusion of The Burning Land. She is present with Uhtred during the sixth book Death of Kings and accompanies him in battle with King Eohric's men in East Anglia as bait. She is also present in the seventh novel, The Pagan Lord, where she is kidnapped by Cnut Longsword in retaliation for the alleged kidnapping of his wife and children by Uhtred and is again featured in the eighth novel, The Empty Throne. In Warriors of the Storm Uhtred mentions that she died a couple of years before the events of the novel, something that he admits upset him. Eadith Eadith was formerly Æthelred's mistress who become Uhtred's wife after Æthelred's death. In The Flame Bearer, it's revealed that they've married. In Sword of Kings, it is revealed that she dies of the plague while Uhtred trapped in Wessex. Uhtred feels guilty because he is relieved. Benedetta Benedetta was a slave from Southern Italy and is described as beautiful with dark skin. She serves as a personal handmaiden of Queen Eadgifu of Kent, the wife of Edward the Elder, King of Wessex and Mercia. She goes north with Uhtred to Bebbanburg and it is implied that she becomes his lover after the death of Eadith.

CapnZapp (talk) 12:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Are you proposing this long summary of the character's life, as a separate article, with no sources, CapnZapp? Keeping a long text on the talk page is not a suitable place -- this is the place to talk about how to improve the article, not archive deleted material from some other article. --Prairieplant (talk) 08:57, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

No, what I did was suggesting some of it might be incorporated on this page. Nothing more, nothing less. CapnZapp (talk) 11:05, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

"Lundene" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Lundene. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 13#Lundene until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jay ^(Talk) 05:26, 17 August 2021 (UTC)